Dave Woodhall talks with Joy Division and New Order legend Peter Hook.
When we spoke a few years ago, Peter Hook and I reflected on our joint birthdays and how one of us had the majority of our joint talent. He still has, as I found out during our recent reunion.
When we first spoke the Light had just started. Did you intend it to last this long?
“I’m amazed it’s lasted. The weird thing is that I just wanted to play. I didn’t have any plans for the future and we came up with the idea. It was as simple as that. When we played the first night at the Factory, my own club, because I couldn’t get anywhere else, we had no second gig planned.
“After we played we got an offer from Clermont Ferrand, which is twinned with Salford, and that was our second gig. It went down a storm and then we started getting lots of offers, we were in Melbourne for our seventh gig, which was pretty good going and from then we’ve never looked back. We weren’t making money for a long time because we had no track record. When we began I just wanted the band to be called the Light but every promoter we’ve worked with has called it Peter Hook and the Light. In a funny way it’s worked out better for me than for the boys.”
And it seems there’s an unlimited supply of albums to cover.
“I wish they were. We’ve only got two left, Waiting for the Sirens Call and Lost Sirens. I suppose that after 15 years you could start again. We’ve done really well, the boys have really made it easy and they play so well, a lot of the time I wish they’d written the songs.
“We’ve been round the world umpteen times and one of the nicest things is that our tour manager Peter, another one with the same birthday as us, said ‘Hooky, why do you never tour England?’ The last time was 1982, 83. We just never did it, we always went for the sunshine. Gigs were offered us everywhere but we really didn’t play England as New Order. I don’t know why.
“So Peter sorted this tour of England and going round some of these really wacky places was fascinating for me because I’d never done it. I’d driven round every other country in the world but never England and I had a fantastic time.
“The thing I also realised is that a lot of people can’t come to London or Manchester to see you, you need to go to them. They’ve given you this big compliment of buying a ticket and listening to you and not everybody is that lucky they can travel.”
One of this tour’s wacky places is the HMV Empire in Coventry. It’s in an old seventies precinct, you could still do a Joy Division video there. The venue’s great but you look at the surroundings and think ‘Yes, this is Coventry’.
“It’s like going to Milton Keynes and seeing how unique that place is, or Birmingham and seeing how large it is compared to Manchester. Without these tours I wouldn’t know England half as well as I do and I wouldn’t collect any of those sneaky parking tickets and those big cameras. Everywhere you can speed they put a camera so I come back with about twelve points.”
Get Ready was your first album for eight years so you missed out on Britpop and all that era.
“I don’t know; Damon from Blur cried on my shoulder a lot during that time. I ended up in a funny position with Blur because I knew the bass player Alex, I knew Damon very well and I knew Liam and Noel. If you ask who I prefer, it’s Blur musically but I’m amazed at what Oasis have achieved. I was trying to officiate between them.
“But Get Ready, as far as I was concerned New Order was finished, it was over. When we got the offer for us to play some big festivals I nearly fell off my chair when Barney wanted to have another go because every single thing he’d done before that indicated that he didn’t give a shit about New Order and certainly didn’t want to have another go.
“When we did the album Steve and Gillian were off doing their own thing most of the time. It was just me and Barney doing the record and while our relationship being shit puts a bad cloud over all our albums, My son Jack told me I’d better listen to it because the gigs were in about six weeks and I got a really nice surprise because Barney and me’s early relationship had been rekindled.
“The link between the guitar and the bass was there, you could hear it. I thought it needed a bit of work because the songs were quite indulgent and needed tightening. The Light are really good at doing that and making songs more immediate. I knew it was going to be great and God, that 37 minutes flies by.”
Now, this isn’t just because I’m talking to you but I do honestly believe that the Light are the best band on the festival circuit.
“As stupid as it may seem, and maybe as naive, but let me loose with my bass in front of people having a good time and I fail to see how you can mess it up. What broke my heart about New Order was that the other three didn’t have the same outlook, perhaps it’s joie de vivre. It’s just a pleasure and I can’t believe I’m still getting the opportunity to enjoy myself this much.”
I’ve said before that you totally rework the songs. Love Will Tear Us Apart, a song about a doomed romance, becomes a stadium anthem, New Order dance songs are punk.
“And they’ve regained, in my opinion, heart and soul. I’m sick of slagging them lot off but when I listen to them now I really don’t hear New Order. What I want is for us to sound like New Order and Joy Division because the people you’re sharing it with deserve it. Maybe I didn’t understand them when I was in it. I certainly understand them far less now we’re not together. It’s a great shame that you can’t share that but that’s life.”
I look at bands who I’ve loved over the years – Slade, the Sex Pistols, Joy Division, and I always think it’s such a shame that people who gave so much enjoyment fall out so badly.
“You know why? It’s all to do with writing usually. You’re either being appreciated too much or you’re being appreciated too little. Throw in a couple of robbing managers, record companies, clubs that cost you millions and drive everybody crazy, and Factory going bump, the Hacienda, thrown that cocktail together and it’s amazing we lasted as long as we did.
“We made mistakes at the start, we made them at the end, we’re still paying for them and it’s heartbreaking. But we’re all still here and we should all at least be able to clap each other on the back and say ‘Well, that England song was a laugh’ but we can’t. I’ve not spoken to any of them socially for nineteen years.”
Look at the Pistols I imagine the other three are just happy to be playing. John’s never stopped playing, that’s the difference. Whenever I do Rebellion I think the same thing – none of these people would be there including us, if it wasn’t for the Sex Pistols. Unless you sat with the four of them and listen to what they’re carping about, what John’s so upset about.
“It’s very difficult to judge because I know and this is why I keep saying I’m going to tell the story, the legal battle in New Order, just so people understand it because you don’t understand 
the depth of pain that comes with these disagreements. Someone should do a book. I’m still considering it because I was reading Morrissey’s book and he goes into it in depth but he never tells you what Mike Joyce was after. I knew Mike and he didn’t tell me either. Nobody wants to tell the truth in a way that people can understand.”
Is there any chance of some Light songs?
“The Light is a vehicle for the back catalogue. I’ve thought about it and it doesn’t feel right to me. I get offers and I play with a lot of others; I’ve recently had three tracks out with other people and another two coming up so I’m happy that I get to create and write, It’s not as good as being in a band. I keep thinking I’ll find someone I can write with but I haven’t found anyone yet. It’s a lot more difficult than people would imagine.”
Talking about Oasis, if the Gallagher brothers can get back together…
“Well, if SJM want to give me £200 million I’ll consider it.”
In an ideal world, if the three of you wanted to be Joy Division again, who would you have taking Ian’s place?
“Jim Morrison? I’m a great fan of Youngblud. I like his attitude so if you made me pick one I think I’d pick him. He dresses like Ian as well, he has that unique manner. I work with a guy named Bastien who was in the band Detachments and he’s down to a tee Ian but it’s too much deja vu. Whoever did it would have to put something new into it and not be Ian all the time.
“I saw the Joy Division play and I had to leave because the memories it was bringing back were too much. Once they showed Ian having a fit I thought it was like a bad dream and I had to get out of there.
“But when I walk out on stage that’s the best part of my day and it makes me the happiest wherever I am, just to be in the company of people who love your music is such a compliment to share it with them.”
Peter Hook & the Light will be performing New Order’s Get Ready at Coventry’s HMV Empire on Saturday 8th November. Tickets are available here.
